Today on The Make Room Show we have special guest, author Brandy Wilson. Author of "Better Than Okay: Finding Hope and Healing After Your Marriage Ends," she shares her personal journey of resilience and transformation. In this raw and honest conversation, Brandy opens up about the darkest time in her life when her husband, a megachurch pastor, walked away from their family and their church after a 20-year marriage.

Brandy's life was turned upside down as her marriage ended publicly, leaving her without her regular church community and facing the challenge of starting over. However, instead of dwelling on her wounds, Brandy chose to draw strength from her scars.

Talking points:

• the profound impact of grief and the importance of acknowledging it as a necessary part of the healing process
• how she navigated her own grief while also supporting her children through their own unique journeys of grief
• the red flags she noticed in her marriage
• advice to younger women who may be facing similar challenges
• personal growth and evolving as individuals within a relationship, reminding us that change is inevitable
• Brandy's anger and frustration towards God during the darkest moments of her life.
• questioning God and finding solace in the closeness she discovered with Him during her darkest seasons

Brandy's book, "Better Than Okay," serves as a guide for those seeking hope and healing after the end of a marriage. Through her own journey, she encourages readers to embrace the opportunity to rebuild their lives and discover a future that is not just okay, but better than okay.

Tune in to this powerful episode of The Make Room Show as Brandy Wilson shares her story of resilience, faith, and finding hope in the midst of adversity.

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About Brandi

"One day, back in 2016, I woke up to a life I never saw coming. The life and family I’d spent 20 years building stopped on a dime. My marriage was over. The church I’d spent years pouring into was no longer part of my life. My community, friends and professional life disappeared in a day’s time. Devastated but determined to create a life that finally felt like my own, I faced my healing journey head-on. I discovered the truth of my experience and learned how to develop a redemptive perspective of my suffering. My life isn’t perfect and my work isn’t done, but I have worked hard to allow my suffering to become a survival guide for others who are walking through emotional turmoil, devastation and heartbreak... I’m a Certified Personal and Executive Coach with The CaPP Institute (Coaching and Positive Psychology) as well as a Professional Coach with Blessing Ranch Ministries where she uses the Unhindered Model to bring healing, freedom, and power to your heart and life. I also co-authored a book with my BFF, Lori Wilhite, Leading and Loving It: Encouragement for Pastors’ Wives and Women in Leadership. My work with Leading and Loving It empowers women in ministry and leadership to develop healthy relationships with themselves so that they can build healthy families, churches, and communities..."

Better Than Okay: Finding Hope and Healing After Your Marriage Ends

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About your host

Jennifer is the host of the Make Room podcast and the founder of the ⁠Created Order Neighborhood⁠, an online community of women who want to live a life of order and purpose. She is the author of five books, including the Organize Now! series and her latest, Make Room. Jennifer was previously the regular organizing expert on the TV show Winging It, Buffalo Style. , and has appeared as a guest expert on several television and radio shows, as well as in national magazines and newspapers. Jennifer lives in western New York with her husband and two children. She works both hands-on and virtually with her clients to help them eliminate clutter and live their dreams.

Where to find Jennifer:

⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠Youtube⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠Pinterest

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Podcast Transcript:

Jennifer:

Hello, everybody out there. Thanks again for joining us for another episode of The make room show. And as usual, we have a special guest for you here today, I would love for you to welcome my guest. And author, new author, I should mention, Brandi Wilson to the show.

So Brandy is the author of "Better than Okay, Finding Hope and Healing After Your Marriage Ends. So just as a little backstory on Brandi, about 2016, her husband, a megachurch pastor walked away from their church and their family. And after a 20 year marriage, Brandi found herself without her regular church community or marriage. And you and your three sons began a brand new journey that you never saw coming. Right? Correct. And so I want you to kind of tell the audience, what you know, going through that was probably one of the darkest times of your life. Right? So what made you want to share such a raw season of your life with the world by writing this book?

Brandi:

Yeah, great question. I think a lot of people have recently asked me like, has that kicked up any old wounds. And I think part of the reason I chose to write "Better Than Okay" is because I want to draw it out of my scars and not my wounds. I think walking through something like a divorce, as you've said, just totally turns life upside down. Life as I knew it ended pretty quickly, as you said, my husband was pastor of mega church largest church in Middle Tennessee. He was also an author traveled a lot to speak. So my life didn't just privately fall apart, it publicly fell apart. And that was really hard to think about starting over. The beauty in your life falling apart is realizing that you have the opportunity to put the pieces of your life back together the way you choose. And that's what I did. I just thought, what do I want my life to look like moving forward? And my healing journey was just something that became so personal, that I had a lot of people and because of the platform that my husband at the time had, I had a lot of people after the divorce, just follow up with me, because their friend was going through a divorce, or maybe they were walking through infidelity, or there was usually some type of similarity they would ask me about surviving. And in the midst of it, they would usually ask two questions. The first one being, am I going to be okay, and, will my kids be okay? And I got to the point where I was like, Oh, you're going to be better than okay. And wanted people to have that hope of like, man, as you've said, this is the darkest season of my life, the person who's supposed to love me the most left, but I can come back from this and actually be better than okay.

Jennifer:

Yes. And I feel like, you know, we can look back on a terrible season and see the reasons why it happened and how we grew. And, you know, just kind of the good out of the bad. But take us back to that time when this first happened. How old were your children?

Brandi:

My kids would have been third grade, fifth grade, eighth grade. So like, 9, 11, 14-ish when the separation happened. You know, by the time everything was finalized, they moved up a year, so 10, 15, something like that.

Jennifer:

So you're in the midst of parenting, like, really, really important years.. And like you mentioned, a mom's mind first goes to what's going to happen to my kids? How are they going to be able to handle this right? How do you How did you balance your grief with their grief at the time? 

Brandi:

I think, you know, grief is one of those things that we don't talk about enough. It's something I think with the awareness of mental health now that it's something we have become more aware of. I think one of the things I didn't realize was that grief was necessary. And I think I also thought grief was just attached to a death. And technically this was a death of my marriage, but more the death of a family member or a loved one. And I think learning to balance their grief and my grief was something that I had to just make sure I was holding space for. I had to make sure that I was working on myself, working toward continued healing for me, as well as making space for them to be able to feel their grief when they needed to. I thought it was really interesting that they all kind of experienced grief in their own way, which is not surprising as individuals, but it kind of reared its ugly head at different times. I chose to sell the house that we had lived in for a number of reasons, and kind of start over and a new to us home. And one of my kids, that's when they grieved the hardest, the saying goodbye to the home that they knew. And it's been their entire life and saying goodbye to that home and coming to a new home was a grieving process for them. One of my kids grieved really hard when my ex husband got remarried. And part that is just I think those markers for our kids market, the finality of the marriage, I think as children, there's always probably a little bit of hope that maybe mom and dad will get back together. But when there are those big markers, like a new home or remarriage, it's that, that final realization to them that yeah, life as we knew it with mom and dad is also for sure over. So something that I felt like I had to tenderly walk through and make sure that I was I'm a two on the Enneagram, which I don't know if that means anything to you. But my bend is to take care of other people before I take care of myself. So the balance of making sure I'm loving and taking care of and aware of my kids, and also loving and being self aware with my own personal healing at the same time.

Jennifer:

Yeah. You know, when you were married, which you were married for 20 years, which is a long time to do with, like, if you look back, and you're honest with yourself, did you see any sort of red flags? Or was there any intuition you had that you squashed down? Or, you know, is there like, you know, some maybe some wings from God, Hey, look over here or acknowledge this?

Brandi:

Yep, I'm looking back, I do see a few things. I think one of the things that is a little difficult, Jennifer, is like I had been with him since I was 18. I got married at 21, I really, truly grew up with him. So I was, you know, 41 When my divorce was final, like, that's a big chunk of adult life that is lived together. So you only know what you know. So looking back now, I do see a lot of unhealthy dysfunction. You know, I will say there were two times in our marriage when trust had been broken, and infidelity had occurred. And both of those times we got counseling, I was pregnant, both of those times. So that's a tough season to find out. And at the time, we did counseling, we did all the things you're "supposed to" do. To move forward. And looking back, there are things I wish I had done differently. And there are things but those things, I feel like pushed me to get healthier, so that if I have the opportunity to do this, again, I am a healthier individual in a relationship than I was during that marriage.

Jennifer:

So, so powerful, because when we do get married young, we're not even done figuring out who we are. Right? And I know I got married personally, when I was 24. My mom got married when she was 19. And we're still both married. Right? It's a long time. And I have just evolved so much as a person. For sure. You know, and that's we don't think about that. When we first get married, though. We don't we think think we're gonna be the same.

Brandi:

Exactly, exactly. That we're not going to change and they're not going to change.

 Jennifer:

Yes. Which is something that we need to be communicating to our children. Don't you think our young adult children when it's their turn to remind them of that? -Yeah- So what do you have any advice now that you're wiser, right, during that season that you would say to a younger woman that maybe has the same red flags?

Brandi:

I get asked that question a lot. I think when it comes to a situation like mine, and people are asking about whether or not you stay, I I have to ask the question, is it an event or a pattern? If it's an event, it's happened once. If it's a pattern, it's happened repeatedly. Patterns are probably not going to change. God is capable of anything. But what we see is that lots of times those patterns stay intact if that person is not willing to do the hard work, of digging in figuring out what their habits are, why they have unhealthy patterns, what pushes them to make poor decisions. So I always think, you know, if it isn't an event that this has happened once, or is this a pattern, and that allows you to see how much you need to continue to dig in and do work, I think. I think you're exactly right about talking to the younger generation about people change. I didn't get divorced, because either one of us changed just to be clear on that, right. But even looking at parenting my kids, you know, my son at 22 is not the same person he was even at 19. That's just three years ago, he's evolved, he's grown. And we have to give space for that to happen in relationships as well. What you need to be sure of is that you're with somebody who's also evolving and growing. That is something that happens not just together as a couple, but also as individuals. That's what keeps that healthy and the interest in one another.

Jennifer:

Yeah, I think marriage helps us grow as a human beings so much. I think parenting helps us grow. But then going through these dark seasons also teach us things and grow. So it's all, you know, part of the journey. I'm sure the fact that your husband was leading this big church, you were in the public eye, you were the wife that there had to be a lot of shock around this. Yeah. And so was there ever a time, and I'm asking this question, you can be as open as you want. But because I feel like when people go through dark seasons, I mean, it's easy to have faith when everything's great, right? Yeah. But when you are, especially in that position that you were in, was there ever a time where you just felt like how, like, did you have any anger towards God at all?

Brandi: Oh, for sure. I think I had anger, I had frustration, it didn't make sense. I can remember laying face down in my bedroom floor praying that it would turn out the way I wanted it to turn out, I think, you know, I've given my life to serving God I had done I felt like everything he had asked me to do so why are you not fixing my marriage? Why are you not restoring this? Why are you not bringing us back together? So yeah, I think that is part of the process. That's part of grief. I don't know that. You know, I think at that point, I had given myself permission to be angry at God. And it wasn't a bad thing. I had even given myself permission to question God, and it wasn't a bad thing. I don't know earlier in my personal faith journey, that I would have been able to do that without feeling some shame. But I think there's something about being able to lean in and ask those hard questions and be mad. And for me to realize that he didn't go anywhere, he actually leaned in harder, helped create this secure attachment that I really needed to have at that time in my life. So yeah, I think there's something really sweet about the closeness of God in the dark seasons like that. And I don't want to go back and relive that. But there is a point where when things are more balanced and stable, that it's like, Man, I kind of miss that closeness that I had with God during that season, where he was the only thing I had to cling to.

Jennifer:

Yeah, isn't it so interesting. Two things that you said that are powerful. And I want the audience to hear it is number one, you were not feeling shame for asking questions and being angry. I think there's a lot of times some sort of unfortunate response, when we feel angry are let down by God that we turn away. Yeah. And I think it's shame that makes us turn away. But we can be angry and an earthly parent and still love them and know that they love us. Right. And it's the same with God. And so I'm glad you said that. And then the second thing is, is when we feel like at our lowest low sometimes that's when we cling to God as a life raft. And it's interesting that you miss that right? Like, yeah, so we should be clinging to him every day. But it seems like when we have nowhere else to turn, that's when we really get on the raft. Yeah. And so

 Brandi:

I think having nowhere else to turn also allows him to show up in a different way. And it allows us to see him in a different way that we haven't before. That is such a gift.

Jennifer:

It's such a gift, such a gift. So your book is just so it's so filled with like uplifting advice. And you know, I want to just show the cover again for anybody that watches this video. But there's one section on page 68, where you say recognize there is good in the lonely. Yeah, my most recent birthday, I woke up to an empty house and composed a journal entry. Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, when you're married that long and your mother for that long, you're not lonely very often. 

Brandi:

Well, you know, I think there's a difference between alone and lonely. And I, looking back now realize I had been lonely for a long time in my marriage. And the title of that chapter you're talking about is I've never missed missed my ex. And it's true. I've never missed my ex. But I have been immensely lonely. And I think one of the...

Jennifer:

you have to backup for that one second, Brandi. So I think that's such an interesting statement. When you say I've never missed my ex. What what does that tell us? What prompted you to write that chapter title?

Brandi:

Because honestly, that is true. I think when I look back at the way my story unfolded, there was the loss of the marriage, and there was the loss of the church. And I felt like God healed my heart very quickly in the loss of the marriage. As we got deeper into the divorce, as more information started to come out, I realized the person I had been married to was not the person I thought he was, for a really long time. And in a, in a much deeper level than I had ever imagined, just the deceit and the lies and the manipulation. I felt like it took me I missed the church a lot longer, and the grieving process of the church was actually a longer process than grieving the loss of my ex husband. Now, I did grieve the loss of the family unit that I had dreamed of, I grieve the loss of what I want our family to look like in the future. But as far as him as an individual, it, you know, there's the reality that life got a lot easier when it was just the kids and I, I went from being in a situation that wasn't super healthy, and, and didn't realize that it wasn't healthy until I got out of it. So there's a point where I'm like, I never really did miss him, I had pretty much done all of the home stuff on my own the entire time. So it did get a little bit easier when it was just the kids and I that I was managing. So yeah, I've never missed my ex.

But I have felt lonely. And I have you know, even a couple years ago, my regular prayer to God was like, Hey, God, take away the longing I have for this partner in my life into like your timing, because I do believe we are created for connection. And I'm a huge connector. And that is something I do desire, and I want for my future. But I've also figured out how to be alone and with myself without being lonely. And there is a healing that takes place. There's actually a song by a country artist, his name is Hardy. He's great. But he says in his song, there's healing in the lonely. And I did not understand what that meant until I forced myself to do it. And I remember my therapist telling me because what I realized about myself, it's like I was okay being alone in the daylight hours. And I was okay being alone if I was out with friends, and then came home after dark. But there's something about the transition from from, you know, daytime to nighttime that man, if I was at home by myself during that period of day, I just, I just ate I was heartbroken to be that lonely. And I made myself just start sitting through it. And getting comfortable with being by myself and being with myself. And because I am naturally wired to want to connect with others and even help with the needs of others. I had to first lean in and see to my own personal needs. And make sure that I was in tune with myself in order to be comfortable setting through the quiet and the loneliness. 

Jennifer:

That's so powerful. And I think a lot of women need to hear that. Whether they're still married or they're not.

Brandi:

Yes. Often, we when we think that we miss our ex, we actually miss the illusion of who we wanted them to be, you know, the illusion of who I wanted him to be as a husband. Not him as an individual but that dream and that desire I had for the person I was married to.

Jennifer:

Yeah, absolutely. So is the fact that you have lost at this point and kind of in the story that you've lost also your church? Was that your choice to step away? Or did you feel kind of pushed away?

Brandi:

Well, um, so that's, that's, you know, lots of details and layers to that. But when my ex husband initially resigned, all of the details were not known of why he was resigning. So when he resigned, it was, we were all gone. Now, what I will tell you is that the church continued to be really good to me when all of the details came out. And the staff showed up, and they moved the kids and I to the home we live in, and the creative team put a basketball goal, and at this new home for my kids, and some of the men from the church showed up, I bought a house that is as old as I am. So it needed some remodeling. So they showed up, and they ripped up the floors and, you know, demoed the kitchen and did some of that kind of stuff. So that I didn't have to pay labor for that. So they continued to take care of me, they covered my counseling for a period of time. But initially, yes, the resignation happened before details were released, or I'm not even gonna say released before details just begin to surface.

Jennifer:

Gotcha, gotcha. So, um, there's so many questions I have as far as the book. It is. If somebody is going through a divorce, it pretty much walks you through the different stages of what you're going to experience, I guess, is the right word. There's a chapter, chapter 10. I googled dad. Yeah. Because when you're speaking, and I'm sure a lot of other women listening, they're thinking about the fact that we know now that he was up to things he shouldn't have been up to. And that's one thing for you to discover it. But it's another thing for your kids to discover it. So tell us a little bit about what you wrote in chapter 10. And why?

Brandi:

Yeah, chapter 10. I have a couple of chapters on parenting. Chapter 10 is one of those parenting chapters. And I think it's really important to make sure that you're truthful with your kids. And I talk a lot about age appropriate truth. And I kind of compare it to a suitcase. And it's, you know, when I was traveling with my kids, and they were smaller, they had this little backpack, and it would hold like their lovey, and maybe a couple diapers and a sippy cup and a snack. And as they've gotten bigger than they can carry a heavier piece of luggage. And it's kind of the same way with the truth. So because the situation is public, and because there were blog posts, written and articles and all of that, there's a lot of truth out there for my kids to discover, without me having to say anything. And one of the things when I moved into the house that we live in is I was very clear to say this is a house of truth. We can deal with absolutely anything as long as you're telling the truth. But if you're gonna lie to me, we can't do that. And very, very important. I felt like we had lived with enough deceit and lies. This was my house. And we do not do lie in this house. That does not always mean it's been perfect, Jennifer. So let me just say that we've had to work out kinks and all of that kind of stuff. But it did create a super safe atmosphere for my kids to be able to tell me a lot of things. And, you know, kids are all wired differently. And one of mine just asked a lot of questions. And I will never forget, I was actually wiping off the kitchen table. And he was sitting at his my desk. So my back was to him when he said I Googled dad. And I just knew I just knew it. And he told me what he had read. And then it gave him the opportunity to ask some questions about the details that they just didn't need to know when it happened. Because they're not things kids needed to know. But in his asking, I'm going to tell him the truth. And I think that's one of the things there is a balance in parenting through divorce, where, you know, I feel like it's important to tell your children the truth. And in doing so, you're being honest about the reality of the situation. For instance, if one of the kids comes to me and were to say like he is so hard to communicate with, I have said what I want five times and he hasn't done it, then, you know, I can take this a couple of different ways I could totally go negative and talk terrible about their father not healthy. I want my kids to be able to affirm what they are feeling. Because part of the reason I felt like my marriage had gotten into the dysfunction that it was in is because I was married to someone that everyone else around me was telling me was incredible. So pastors a large church, everywhere I turn, someone knows who he is, they're telling me oh, you know, his message saved our marriage, his teaching gave me the, you know, opportunity to reach out and find a new job, we think he's amazing. I didn't know the relationship I have with God now. So I'm being told everywhere how amazing this person is. So therefore, it just makes sense that I must be the weak link. If everyone else thinks he's amazing, then why in the person I'm living with and the person I see on the platform are two very different people, I guess it's because of me. So I want my kids to be able to affirm what they're feeling. So when they have that he's so hard to communicate with, instead of trashing him. I'm not going to do that. It is okay to say I understand that. I understand. He is hard at times to communicate with. I was married to him for a while. And I know that he can be difficult to communicate with I'm sorry, that your reality? Tell me how you're going to work through it, and be able to parent them through that, but it helps a firm, you know, yeah, what I'm feeling is actually true. It's real. But it doesn't take it in a negative, you know, direction, where they're hearing things that are hard to hear about their debt.

Jennifer:

Yeah, I think that's such good advice. I mean, because you're put in a really difficult position, and you're angry and sad and disappointed. And you could easily those words could come out of your mouth a different way. But you have to think about the fact that this is still your kid's father, for sure. So I think that the way you're handling it, and that is going to be really some great advice for the listeners that are going through the same thing. So I really appreciate that. So brandi, I know. You mentioned that you moved into what did you call your new house? House of truth? Yeah, but you said something else about you left your family home. And I think you're in a different funny name for that. It was really cute. But anyways, so you you moved out of the family home, you decided to do that move into a new home, I'm sure for like new beginnings. And yeah. So how was that process letting go of the home that your children grew up in the home or you had 20 years of marriage? And kind of going into like your new single vibe home? What how was that? And what were what some suggestions when women are finding themselves in the exact same position how they can make this a good thing?

Brandi:

Yeah, I knew immediately I was not going to stay in the house that we were living in. We had lived there for 12 years. It was a, I think, about 12 years, 10-12 years, something like that. It was a great house, it was not where I wanted to restart. I felt like there were too many, you know, ghosts in that house. I wanted a fresh start. It wasn't as easy on my kids. But I kept them in the process. I remember we sat down at dinner one night, like, okay, mom can probably afford either a four bedroom, or three bedroom and a bonus room. So let's talk about what that's going to look like. And let's vote and let's give feedback on which, you know, choice you're gonna make. And so I kept it really open. Obviously, I had the ultimate final decision as being the mortgage, but I kept that something that we talked about, it wasn't sprung on them. It wasn't a surprise. You know, one of my kids had said one night I was tucking him in. And he was teary and I said, What's going on with your heart and He said, You know, I go to school and everything's fine and normal and then come home and dad's still gone. So even though they didn't want to move, I think they also needed that fresh start. And as I was making this decision to sell that home and to buy a new home part of this, me starting over and becoming better than okay was I realized I'd forgotten to dream for myself. I was really great and helping him chase his dreams and cheering him on as he was chasing dreams. I was great about fostering that my kids. I had lost that in myself. So actually, that's how I taught myself to dream again. I imagined one no one to a smaller home. And I just started a note in my phone, and with a list of how I wanted my new home to feel. And look, I like creating a cozy and comfortable space for myself and the people I love. So I just started making some notes in there. And it was, you know, super simple stuff. Like, I want mainly white walls, and I want lots of plants and I want to burn candles, rather than buying them because they look pretty, and I want to have fresh flowers. And I you know, and I just made this list of everything I wanted my new home, how would I know I didn't have this home yet. Right? I didn't even know if it would have, you know, four bedrooms, or three bedrooms and a bonus room. But I started to dream about what I would be able to create in a new space for us. And that was so free. And it was so empowering. I didn't run paint colors by anyone my kids bedrooms, but I didn't run paint colors by anyone. I didn't run, you know, cabinet knob choices by anyone. It was all I was buying a house, I was the sole signer on the mortgage for the home, I was picking out everything I was hiring the contractors I was in, it was just super empowering to be able to take a little dream that began as a note on my phone and see it through to the final product. So it it was a place where I was able to not just create a fresh start for us, but also create a place that felt like us. So I wanted to feel safe. And I wanted it to be house of truth. And that is something that I can look back on. I still have the note on my phone and look back at it and see like, oh, yeah, this is I actually took this dream and got it to the to the end mark.

Jennifer:

And it proves to you that you can now do things like this like, like manifesting a dream on your own. Yes. And you know, a lot of women could have went the other way, as soon as one of their kids started to complain or not want change, because let's face it, a lot of children don't like change. I mean, that's very normal. You could have easily put yourself on the backburner and said, Okay, I won't do it. But what I love about what you said is not only did it empower you, and give you this fresh start and prove that you can do hard things on your own. It shows your kids that you're strong enough to be okay. Yes. And that gives them a comforting feeling knowing that mom is going to be okay. Yeah. And so I just think that's beautiful. I really do. How hard was it to divvy up the stuff that you had shared for 20 years?

Brandi:

Yeah. And I did do all of that he had moved out and he had no interest. So I just, you know, I divvied up a ton of it. And at the I have the kids majority of the time. So I knew what I wanted to keep up. There's what we wanted a fresh start with our house here was smaller. So we have a lot of stuff I just had to get rid of. It was probably going through the sentimental stuff that was a little harder. And I remember, you know, I had all these photo albums from college and I had a girlfriend who I knew I needed to pack up like the attic that had a lot of that sentimental stuff. And I called her and I was like, I think I need help. And she's like, great, and she rolled up and man, she made a lot of decisions for me that I would not have been able to make. And it was awesome. Because then I'm not unpacking all of that stuff. I will tell you the one thing that was hard that I brought is we have collected a Christmas Village since before we got married at department 56 Christmas Village Christmas was kind of like the holiday. We both enjoyed decorating for so I divided those. He got half and I got half. And the first couple of years I lived here I put it out. And then by year three or four, I just realized every time I open that tub and I started pulling out those boxes. Every box had something significant written on it like to Brandi 1996 for engagement. And I had marked every box that way so that we would have this legacy gift for kids. And about Christmas for I decided I'm not doing that. Again. I'm not putting out that village I'm not pulling out those boxes. I'm not reliving the sadness of when these pieces were purchased and the thought behind them. So I just told all my kids individually like hey, we still have the village it's packed up in the attic for you guys, when you move and start your family, it's yours, you can divide it among the three of you, and you can keep it. But because on each box, it's written, why this piece was purchased. I just don't want to revisit those memories anymore on a regular basis. And they were all like, Okay, that's great. So when I made a decision about something like that, and make sure I also told them why I didn't want anything to just disappear, right? You know, I didn't say I want to cry every time I open the tub. I just gave them this age appropriate truth of, hey, this is why we're not gonna put the village out at this house anymore. Yeah. And they have been okay with it.

Jennifer:

I think that's great. And I think that it's a piece of advice that people can take, even if they're not in this exact same situation. Because I often say to people that I coach, if it makes you feel a negative emotion, regardless of why it came into your life to begin with, which could be a gift, it could be worth some sort of money, blah, blah, blah, then it's not worth looking at and having it take up energy and space in your home. Right, because our home is our one place that should be our sanctuary. 

Brandi:

For sure. I agree. 100%.

Jennifer:

Yeah, I love that. Chapter 14, I think is important. It's your title that "Stop trying to resuscitate what's dead". And we I'm sure that what you're going to say is not only going to be relatable for marriages, but even friendships, even any relationship in our life. Yep. Yep. So tell us a little bit about that chapter.

Brandi:

Yeah, I stopped trying to resuscitate what's dead. I listened to a podcast from Emily P. Freeman. And she said, something to the effect of we have to ask ourselves, are we cooperating with the new life that God is offering us? Or are we trying to resuscitate the old life because that's all we know. And I think, you know, my entire adult life had been with this person. And it is easy to want to resuscitate what is gone, because that's what we know. We are always going to cling to what is familiar. But in order to step fully into the life that God has prepared for us and wants for us, we have to be willing to step into what is unknown. We have to be willing to cooperate with what he's given us. And the story I tell is actually has to do with church and how I started it's been about a year and a half ago, about two years ago now I started attending a small house church during the pandemic that had started in my neighborhood, and I've been part of that church for about nine months. And needless to say, church was not easy after leaving Crosspoint have visited I stayed at CrossPoint for a little while. I still visited there occasionally. I you know, I've even attended friends baptisms and baby dedications since leaving, so I am comfortable there. I just knew it wasn't the place that God wanted for me. So in Nashville, Franklin, there are a ton of churches. I've visited a lot of churches hadn't settled anywhere. But one of the things that I liked about this home church that had started attending was they were very intentional about community. And intentional community was the one thing I missed about being part of a church. So I had been in that church community about nine months. It was December and we have terrible storms in the south. And we had the storm that night. My oldest son got home from college late that night, we had hearable storm come through to the point that he runs down the stairs and he bangs on all our doors and you make sure we're up and we all get in the bathroom together with the dogs. And the storm blows through and we realize that there's a massive tree down in my backyard. It's the benefit of buying a house as old as you are is that reasonable to so we had this massive tree that had fallen and I knew it hadn't like directly hit the house because there wasn't rain coming in but it was really close to the house. So the next morning I woke up and the tree was legitimately setting on the three steps that lead up to the little tiny porch that goes into our back door so it was within 18 inches two feet of hitting our home and I have done a lot of remodeling and dry but when it comes to using a chainsaw that is the thing that I learned yet. So I kind of look at my backyard which is full of this massive tree it's like part of it and taken out the fence part of it taken out the tree next to it part of it was laying up against the back stoop of the house. else. And I'm just kind of frozen. And in that moment, what I knew was that I could call, there's a group of men from a small group that I was part of when I was at CrossPoint that I still keep up with and I'm in touch with And we attend each other's, you know, graduation parties, I could have called those men from my old church, and they would have shown up with chainsaws. But I also realized that in order to stop trying to resuscitate what was dead, it was time for me to step into the new and to cooperate with what God had given me, which is the new home church. So I remember calling the pastor's name is Chris and just saying, like, I have a tree down, and I don't know what to do. And he said, Okay, do you need me to get people to come over and help you with it? And I said, I don't know. He said, he's, he was so gentle. Brandy, I can advocate for you, if you tell me what you need, but I need you to say it. And I said, I need help. And he said, Great, I'll have people there about two o'clock. And it was almost like God had passed the baton of my heart from Crosspointe, to the Home Church, in calling them and cooperating with what he was offering me. And it really was a marker for me, it was cool, too, because all three of my kids were here. So the my boys helped these. Most they hadn't really started going to that church with me yet they do now. So they're meeting some of these people for the first time. And they're all in the backyard doing an activity, which is great for men and boys to be doing... chainsaws, that kind of stuff. So yeah, it was really that point where I was like, Okay, God, you have offered me new. And I have to cooperate with the new rather than trying to hang on to the old that I just have to remember, you know, that's a super practical story of what it looked like. But I think that happens a lot in life is God offers us new and because it's not known, yet, we still cling to that old and what he wants for us is that newness, that freedom, to be loved by other people and connected to other people, and to have a new experience. And it was just a really great lesson for me to learn about it. Just because he offers it to me doesn't mean I necessarily always step straight into it. I have to be aware that I am choosing what he has offered me and cooperating with his plan for my life.

Jennifer:

Yes, so good, so good. Well, this, this has been such a joy of a conversation, I feel like telling you, from woman to woman, I'm super proud of you. Thank you really, really proud of you. Because you could have went any different direction. But you your story of turning a really bad season in very hard circumstances you were found, you found yourself in into a positive. And by writing a book like this, you're going to help so many women that feel the same way as you do. But you're putting words to what they're feeling and that they're going to realize that they're like the book says better than okay, if they give themself a chance. And so I really want to encourage the listeners to find this book, "Better than Okay, Finding Hope and Healing After Your Marriage Ends" for sure. And second of all, tell us what you're doing now with your life. I mean, you have all this new wisdom and life experience. What are you doing with it? Besides writing books?

Brandi:

Yeah, I actually do a couple of things. I have a full time job with leaving and loving it, which is an organization, nonprofit organization that helps equip women to love their life and ministry, to be able to thrive and God's calling on their life. And then I also do coaching on the side, I'm a certified coach. I work with lots of women who have gone through divorce, I worked with lots of just women in general, about any kind of change that or transition that they are experiencing and helping them figure out how to take their next best step. So helping them find strength, freedom and joy, and what God has called them to.

Jennifer:

Oh, I love that so much. And we'll have links in the show notes to your website and your social media. But thank you so much for joining us today. Brandy, I really appreciate it and this book is just a blessing to the world. So good for you.

Brandi:

We appreciate that. Thank you so much. You're welcome.

Jennifer:

And if this show this episode touched you or you have any questions, feel free to reach out to either Brandi or I leave us a comment or review and we'd be happy to respond. Until next time. Make sure you "Make Room"!